Libertarian Man of Mystery: Why can’t the kid wear a flag pin like everyone else?

February 18, 2005

Why can’t the kid wear a flag pin like everyone else?

A school in Schenectady, NY, apparently has a policy that children can’t wear beaded necklaces to school because gangs in the area wear them. A girl shows up at school with a beaded necklace, and school officials tell her to take it off.

So what’s the big deal? Don’t wear beads to school. (Yes, theoretically you might say that kids should be able to wear whatever they want to school, but unfortunately some kids will always ruin it for everyone else by abusing the lack of rules.)

But, some dummy reporter decides to twist the story, and write about how this girl just loves her country and was wearing red, white and blue beads to support the troops. Aww, how cute. And some annoying lawyer decided to make a big lawsuit out of this.

And then Michelle Malkin (whose blog, like my previous template, has a picture of a cute young woman in the sidebar) picks up on this. She always manages to find these junk stories.

As I’ve explained before, you don’t want administrators making exceptions to rules just because some kid is breaking the rules to help tsunami victims or support the troops.

The kid should show her support for the troops the way everyone else does, by wearing one of those little American flag pins.

February 18, 2005 at 06:38 AM | Permalink

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Comments

You gotta admit, though: Michelle Malkin is cute.

Posted by: billy-jay | February 18, 2005 at 06:59 AM

Actually, I don't see what the big deal is with her. The girl who used to grace my sidebar was way hotter (which explains why my blog got so much attention when her photo was on the sidebar).

But the point is that the photo works so long as a subtantial percentage of male readers think she's cute.

Posted by: Libertarian Man of Mystery | February 18, 2005 at 08:43 AM

Ahh, I see you are still at least pretending to be a Libertarian, if not a Girl.

Look, the Bill of Rights isn't a buffet that you can pick and chose from to get your particular recipe for social justice, it's a package deal. I agree with the courts that clothing is a form of expression, therefore, she can wear any dang color beads she wants, even if they are commie red or hypocrite pink.

I -might- be willing to draw the line at a particularly reviling bikini, worn during midterms or something, where it's obvious the intent was to disrupt other test takers.

The common libertarian belief is that you can do whatever the hell you want, as long as it do not overly destroy the rights of others to do whatever the hell they want.

Perhaps a better libertarian approach might be to gut the public schools altogether, and give all the parents vouchers. Then, the parents could chose to sent there kids to a school that requires uniforms, or to a nudest colony school.

Posted by: xx y | February 18, 2005 at 09:28 AM

It's not anti-libertarian for a school to have dress requirements for students. Students are not adults, so the school has to act in loco parentis. And it may be a "public" school, but it's the government acting in a quasi-private manner, because there's no real reason why schools have to be public. No parent would choose a private school that let the kids run wild, so why should public schools let kids run wild?

Posted by: Libertarian Man of Mystery | February 18, 2005 at 10:32 AM

I would argue that because it was a "public" school, and unless parents paid for a private school, that's where the kids would end up. Being a "public" school, kids don't "shed their constitutional rights when they enter the schoolhouse door." Tinker vs. Des Moines

While this court case certainty has not been overturned, other judgments, laws and what-have-you have conspired to erode this simple truth.

I guess it's OK to just ignore landmark cases when it doesn't suit you ;)

With all the problems of public school, and I'm talking the state indoctrinating the students on how to be good little citizens and taxpayers, public school needs to be abolished.

You wouldn't trust a commie school to raise your kids up right, why would you trust a Big Government school to do the same?

Posted by: xx y | February 18, 2005 at 11:02 AM

The original landmark case was about black armbands, and the court ruled that the school would only be able to ban the armbands if they could show that it would cause a substantial disruption of the school's educational mission.

Posted by: xx y | February 18, 2005 at 11:09 AM

xxy, unlike the armbands, the beads have absolutely no pre-existing political meaning. And that SCt decision wasn't unanimous, Justice Harlan, dissenting, wrote:

I am reluctant to believe that there is any disagreement between the majority and myself on the proposition that school officials should be accorded the widest authority in maintaining discipline and good order in their institutions. To translate that proposition into a workable constitutional rule, I would, in cases like this, cast upon those complaining the burden of showing that a particular school measure was motivated by other than legitimate school concerns--for example, a desire to prohibit the expression of an unpopular point of view, while permitting expression of the dominant opinion.

The 1960s court was left wing court, and in this case may have been motivated by their own dislike of the Vietnam War.

And finally, gang clothing DOES cause a substantial disruption of school.

Posted by: Libertarian Man of Mystery | February 18, 2005 at 11:22 AM

If the beads have "absolutely no pre-existing political meaning", how in the heck can they be "substantial disruption of the school's educational mission"?

You might have a point on the gang clothing, but see what a legal minefield you step in to when the government starts banning things?

Gut the public schools, solves everything!

Posted by: xx y | February 18, 2005 at 11:32 AM

Justice Harlan's opinion looks like a good argument for private schools, public schools are different. Think of private parks vs public parks. By their very definition, public parks have to be open to every wacko with an opinion.

And with that, I'm off to a public park, to enjoy my day off. I'll read ya tomorrow!

Posted by: xx y | February 18, 2005 at 11:50 AM

xxy, the point is that the arm bands had a pre-existing political meaning, so banning all arm bands smelled fishy.

There is no existing movement to demonstrate support for the troops by wearing beads. But they did have some pre-existing gang connotations in the Albany area.

Clothing restrictions are necessary for running an orderly school. This is common sense.

Why to libertarians have to throw out common sense? I am a common-sense type of libertarian.

I'm in favor of school choice, one day I'll write about it.

Posted by: Libertarian Man of Mystery | February 18, 2005 at 12:03 PM

Do you really believe that by micromanaging what students wear, the school administrators are actually deterring gang activity in any way?

Or are they just engaging in political theater to protect their own jobs? "Hey, look, concerned parents, we're Doing Something about this! It's a pointless and ineffective action, but we think you'll be reassured by it anyway!"

Posted by: Pat | February 18, 2005 at 04:40 PM

So you're a common-sense type of libertarian? Well I'm a Thomas Paine type of libertarian!

I'll have to say I agree with your original premise though, cute kids, or blond bloggers, or whatever, shouldn't get exceptions to the rules, even if it's for all the right reasons.

I hope you understand my point of view, though. When you start mixing public money into the equation you must honor peoples civil rights. Public money makes it everyone's business. If you give out vouchers you side-step a little of this, if you don't like what so-and-so is doing with their voucher money, you can just go do whatever the heck you want with your voucher money.

The ultimate “common-sense” solution will never happen, but it's fun to think about. Perhaps one day people will only have kids that they can afford. Then they can pay for their own damn kid's education.

As a single guy, I'm sure you detest the idea of paying taxes to support other people's kids. Oh wait, you are unemployed! Sorry.

The common sense part about it all is I think it's cheaper in the long run for me to pay to publicly educate your damn kids.

Posted by: xx y | February 18, 2005 at 05:41 PM

I'm certain that "micromanaging" what students wear is necessary to maintain order in the school, and yes it would deter gang activity because gang members are prevented from identifying themselves while on school grounds.

Try going to work and wearing whatever you want. It doesn't work at a job. And school is preparing students for the day when they will have to go to work.

Posted by: Libertarian Man of Mystery | February 19, 2005 at 12:26 AM

When you start mixing public money into the equation you must honor peoples civil rights.

When you consider that children are forced to go to school, which if they were adults would be equivalent to imprisonment, then in comparison not allowing them to wear certain clothing is an extremely minor infringement on their civil liberties to the point of being de minimis.

Posted by: Libertarian Man of Mystery | February 19, 2005 at 12:29 AM

No parent would choose a private school that let the kids run wild

Well, there are some. They're private and they're called Montessori schools. Nonetheless, you are largely correct. If all schools were private, most parents would not opt for the free form school.

Posted by: Steve | February 19, 2005 at 06:35 AM

Ok that sums it up nicely;

me: public school = public park
you: public school = prison managed for the good of society

No wonder I dreaded highschool.

Posted by: xx y | February 19, 2005 at 10:57 AM

I disagree very strongly with the proncipal that gangs now own certain colors and certain bracelets and necklaces and the best the schools can do is to kowtow to this.

For one thing this does not prepare kids for the real world when they will be free to wear beads and redtee shirts.

Of course then they can only wera red if they are republicans and blue if they are democrats but there is only so much one grouchy old person can complain about.

Posted by: john | February 19, 2005 at 11:40 AM

Excellent post, LMM. What are the grounds for the lawsuit. Is the colored necklace supposed to be a form of speech? Good grief.

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