Asian women and BMI, plus other commentary

Susan left a comment which shows bad logical thinking (but don't be too offended Susan, most of the comments suffer from the same problem--few are as logical as the Libertarian Man of Mystery):

i'm an asian female and i have no idea whether white women are upset about the asian girl/white guy dating. it's quite common these days and none of my white girlfriends ever said anything about it.

i think it's just a matter of preference. majority of the guys i've dated post college have been white but it doesn't mean that i only exclusively want to date white guys. it just happens to have become a preference now. and as far as asian women having no breasts of curves, i think that's false b/c several of the asian women i know have them.

and what's with the generalization that asian women go for successful men while white women don't. trust me, *ALL* women are generally attracted to successful/responsible men (whatever field it might be in). Only maybe women who like drama might desire otherwise.

First of all, I want to talk about her statement, "as far as asian women having no breasts of curves, i think that's false b/c several of the asian women i know have them." Susan, we are talking generalities. Of course you can find an Asian woman that has a completely different body type than the typical Asian, but this web page has a more scientific comparison of racial body types.

Asian women have a lower mean Body Mass Index (BMI) than white women. Furthermore, the author of the cited web page also points out that Asian women, despite having a lower BMI, have a higher body fat index! A white woman I know once observed that Asian girls go from skinny to fat without any in between state. This observation is justified by the data: because Asian women tend to have less muscle mass and bone density than white women, when they gain a little bit of weight they look fat.

What body type do men prefer in women? This would seem to be heavily influenced by culture. The paintings in the art museums show that in the 17th century, men liked a fat woman. As late as the 1950s, Marilyn Monroe was considered the height of sexiness, yet she was much chunkier than the skinner actresses and models of the present.

I think that from a bio-evolutionary perspective, being extremely thin would be an indicator of poor health, so modern man's like for the skinniest women is mostly cultural. Nevertheless, men who have bought into the culture of thin may prefer Asian women. But I think most men aren't attracted to the thinnest women, they prefer a woman of median BMI for their race, or mabye slightly below the median BMI but not too much below.

Picking on some of Susan's other statements, she wrote "majority of the guys i've dated post college have been white but it doesn't mean that i only exclusively want to date white guys." Considering that there are so many single Asian me out there, that fact that she mostly dates white guys seems to me to be a pretty strong preference for white guys.

"and what's with the generalization that asian women go for successful men while white women don't." I certainly never said that being successful is a negative. But what I did say is that women of different races have different priorities. So while all women would prefer a man who was both good looking and successful, given a choice between a man who was ugly but successful, and one that was good looking but unsuccessful, I stand by my observation that a higher percentage of Asian women would pick the man who was ugly but successful.

"i have no idea whether white women are upset about the asian girl/white guy dating." People get upset with anything that intereferes with their privilege. But "asian girl/white guy" dating is much more harmful to Asian men than it is to white women, so Asian men would be the demographic group that should be most upset. Because Asians are a small minority in the United States, interracial dating is only stealing a tiny percentage of white men, but from the perspective of the Asian man, a significant percentage of Asian women are being stolen by white men.

Comments

[T'K Chong]

The figures and statistics used by Mr. Steve Sailer in his paper are consistent with the facts in the BMI comparison of different racial types used by Mr. Mystery Libertarian Man. That is a good sign of consistent observations and reproduciable results by different researchers. That is a strong basis for a scientific theory (i.e., for social sciences.)

[Wendy]

I was being irrevelant. Thank you very much. But the satire can be entirely revealing.

Btw, other factors could be considered for why Asian women have higher BMI--1) where are subjects located? n. america? all over the world? 2) maybe Asian women work out less--did they consider other variables that might throw research off--such as diet, exercise, lifestyle?? Then race is no longer relevant. Eating McDonald's everyday, no matter what your phenotype is, can make you more fat, no matter what your race or culture is. 3) body image--what body image is more desired by each particular race for females? Higher BMI could be related to one culture's need for a female to look softer and more feminine while another culture could put its emphasis on health and fitness.

I.e. it might not be just a matter of phenotype.

[Wendy]

BMI is "body mass index from your Weight and Height and also shows how your weight compares to others of the same height and age". So if Asians tend to be smaller in their frame height-wise and in size, then of course they reach the point of obesity at a lower BMI. It's not that Asians hold more fat on average--it's that Asians reach obesity at a lower level of fat than white people. Then again, it seems the data for blacks contradicts the rest of the data. To keep healthy, it's just best everyone should exercise for their appropriate body-type.

[T'K Chong]

Wendy didn't seem to get it. I'm just gonna spell it out to make it simple for her:

Statistics show an inequality in interracial dating in America. Why is that? Why are some people dating some people but not other people? When it comes to interracial dating? What determines who dates who, in terms of race and gender? What determines preferences?

Some would like to naively believe it has to do with free love, free will, personality, and all the fair and honorable reasons. However, Mr. Mystery Libertarian and Steve Sailer suggested otherwise.

They proposed the interracial dating pattern was determined by the perception of physical muscularity and femininity. Women want to date men who are physically manly, and men want to date women who are physically ladylike. For interracial dating, women tend to date men who are more manly than the men of their own race, and men date women who are more womanly than women of their own race.

Now, muscularity and femininity, manly and womanly, can be a very subjective concept. Subjectivity is worth as much as horse craps in convincing reasonable and objective people. So we have to come up with an objective, consistent, scientific evaluation. Is there a way to objectively observe muscularity and femininity? Is there a scientific method to calculate what is more "manly" and what is more "ladylike", physically, when comparing different races?

In fact, there is. The way to objectively, consistently and scientifically define physical muscularity and femininity is using Body Fat Percentage. Steven Sailer and Lib-Man-O-Myst properly explained why Body Fat Percentage was a good indicator of manliness and womanliness. Moreover, the differences in Body Fat Percentages correlate with and sufficiently explains the inequalities in interracial dating patterns, and this correlation is patterned and cannot be explained by randomness or pure coincidences. So, muscularity and femininity does determine outcomes and winners and losers in interracial dating.

Biologically and genetically, women's bodies hold more fat than men. Isn't that a common knowledge already? So a natural higher Body Fat Percentage means a more womanly physique; a lower Body Fat Percentage means a more manly physique.

As for the data used for the study, they are relevant to the study, which means they are localized, standardized and randomized. Whatever causes Asians to have higher body fat percentage than other races is irrelevant to the point of the study. Whatever reasons that cause Asians to appear (naturally) less muscular/more feminine is beside the point and beyond the scope of our discussion. The important point is: Asians, overall, have a naturally higher fat percentage. It is biological. It is genetic. Therefore, Asian body type are less muscular and more feminine than White or Black. And Asian body type works in the favor of women and against men in interracial dating and marriage.

[Wendy]

I believe the results of the studies are actually "localized, standardized and randomized" to each race. Look again at the data from the study. Asian women have an average BMI of 22, at least 1.3 below the next category (which is the category of white women). The way I am interpreting the data is that Asian women have a body fat percentage that is lower than anyone else...NOT a naturally higher fat percentage. The first table shows this clearly.

Now, the person who did the study did some sort of formula to standardize all the results, since different races have a different ratio of body fat to body mass index. He calculated a body fat threshold for women of 33%, meaning that each race reached the body fat definition of obesity at a different BMI--Asians do reach the level of obesity that their BMI indicates at the 33% body fat threshold, at a much lower BMI...but also, if you take the time to carefully compare the charts, one will actually notice that Asians are the only ethnic group whose BMI is lower than the level of obesity and thus, on the average, is not OBESE by the standards of the body fat threshold. Puerto Rican women hold the most fat on their bones and are the obese in this study.

This definately points to differences in culture, body image, diet, etc around the world and in different cultures. African American men do prefer their women thicker on average--this means that black women are comfortable with being larger and retaining a higher body fat. White America is obsessed with a thin, perfect, silicon enhanced body and aneroxia is rampant among the youth--does this relate to body image, which then affects mating patterns among white people and thus the evolutionary pattern that will determine how much body fat is distributed to the females of an ethnic group?

Nowadays, we have a lot of interracial dating, although it's obvious on this blog that there's a lot of debate about it going on. It's just a sign of us all melding together and dealing with the inevitable conflicts and changes. But the human being who has a trace of all ethnic groups in his/her genes is inevitable down the road.

Speaking of body fat and masculinity and femininity, if the subject of a racial group is examined, then one cannot talk about interracial mixing if you want to compare stats. Body fat percentage in a group of females of a particular race, if they are not from mixed descent, merely show what the men of that culture and race prefer and what body image is prevalent. I think it's just a product of evolution, which like I said, is interconnected with culture, image, and various other factors.

If it's a SOCIAL science that we're examining, how in the world can you get the best results for interpreting study results without looking at the social conditions and impact? Every scientific experiment necessarily has to consider the factors that would make results inaccurate, as "scientifically" conducted as it might have been, and make allowance for it. That's why there is a designated control. In the real world, when we are talking about a truly randomized set of circumstances, especially with interracial dating and evolution, there is no such thing as a control.

This study says nothing about masculinity and femininity. Yes, I agree that the higher body fat in women signifies femininity, just from common experience, and that lower body fat in men is usually found to be more masculine, but I find it hard to interpret this study as proof of that hypothesis.

[Wendy]

Actually, if all circumstances, like diet, exercise and culture, etc, are put aside, the statistics on BMI just show that Asians are less likely than whites, blacks, and Puerto Ricans to be predispositioned towards obesity.

[Crank Caller]

I know it's not interracial, but when are nerds (Bill Gates excluded) going to achieve parity in dating? We have a lot to offer, and I'm not just talking matching his 'n hers pocket protectors.

[Michael]

I am living with a chinese woman 20 yrs younger than me. Truth is we actually love each other very much. I am not Rock Hudson or Bill Gates but I sure can satisfy her, get it! She is not Miss World either but she has values that have some real meaning.
Good riddance to all the fat, successful and overbearing white females. Perhaps you will get your just deserts, a black guy. Good luck, cos what does that really get you in this day and age???

[lyn]

Chinese men just stink, have bad teeth and are gross:

http://www.20six.co.uk/silsby/archive/2005/03/29/1ir9tldtkm0t6.htm#comments

Read the comments here. Very interesting discussion.

[Nikki]

I hate black men and women. Thay remind me of apes. I can tolerate all other races, except blacks. I hate their nappy hair and oily skin. I would never date a black man or befriend a black woman. They just remind me of the movie, "Planet of the Apes". I love living in California, because I find hispanics beautiful and my mom recently took a trip to Georgia, to visit my sister, and informed me that there were a lot of blacks in Georgia. My poor sis. Hang in there hon!