Bad economic thinking and senior discounts

My post about seniors riding the subway for half price received some comments that are examples of bad economic reasoning.

Karen wrote, "It's market segmentation. Some people won't ride the subway at full price but will ride it at half price." I don't see why seniors wouldn't ride the subway at full price. Two dollars isn't a whole lot of money, and it's a lot less than a cab ride or driving. (For those who have never driven around New York City, a drive into Manhattan can often mean $7 in tolls plus $30 for parking.) Nor do I see why we should care if some people don't ride the subway, they are crowded enough anyway, even during the non-rush hour periods.

Also, people in high school or college have less money to ride the subways than seniors do. When I was a student, a subway fare seemed like a lot of money to me! Yet my retired grandparents always seemed to have plenty of money even though they were non-college graduates and neither of my grandmothers ever worked after they got married.

xx y writes, "Most of those people are not riding during the peek [sic] hours." Now that card readers have replaced tokens in the NYC subways, if the MTA wants to give a discount for peak hours, such a policy can easily be implemented. The Washington, DC subways have different fares for peak and off-peak travel. And as I wrote before, during the off-peak hours, the subways are still pretty darn crowded.

xx y also writes, "NYC wants to keep those seniors in the state anyway, they pay income taxes on those pensions, IRA withdraws, and SS." There is something to the theory that seniors are more beneficial to the local economy, mainly because they don't have any children using up costly public education services. But there are more efficient ways of keeping them in the city. How about a direct tax break on their local income taxes? I seriously doubt a half price subway fare is preventing anyone from moving to Florida.

Comments

[xx y]

I made a few wild-ass guesses as to why, I wasn't defending the “right” for people to ride the subway for half price.

A Senor discount isn't limited to just subway fare, all there are all kinds of discounts for seniors, both public or private. A NPS “parks pass” is another example.

Perhaps someone who is between 41 and 65 should file suit against this discriminatory practice, apparently it's OK to discriminate against people based on their age, unless they are over 40.

[Karen]

My post about seniors riding the subway for half price received some comments that are examples of bad economic reasoning.

My post was straight out of my marketing class.

I HATE senior citizen discounts. For government services, people should pay for use, it doesn't make any sense to give a certain group a discount.. especially when that group is particularly wealthy/white compared to other subway riders. I am so tired of seeing seniors get everything from discounts and the local pool to free village health club memberships.

[christy]

You have to check out www.certdenied.blogspot.com to see the mug I made... sorry for the shameless plug.. but i'm very proud of it.

[Samara]

Cheap tickets for senior citizens is a clear example of price discrimination. I personally have never been a fan of this economic tool, but it is efficient. Obviously there are more groups that can benefit from lower fares, i.e. students, but it is very difficult to incorporate perfect price discrimination. The MTA also uses price discrimination by adding a premium to trains entering the city during peak hours. Many free-market institutions use price-discrimination, i.e. movie theaters.

[Chixulub]

A libertarian discussion of public transit. How ironic (if not mysterious).

I live in one of those sprawling suburbs that resulted from federal highway loops and city councils who cooked the books for projected population. Based on 1970 census numbers, Kansas City got the pork to build I-435, I-635, and I-470, which made it so convenient for high income earners to flee the problems of the city rather than solve them. And once a critical mass had been achieved in terms of scattering people out into the suburbs, they started locating their offices out here too. The result is that the only transportation that makes any economic sense is rubber on pavement, and then there's the copious resources squandered to run water, sewer, and roads into new subdivisions. And the commuting from one suburb to another. 20 years after the Kansas City council projected going from 500,000 people to 1.5 million people, the city proper had diminished to 450,000 people. So now people get this oddball notion that having thinned the population density down to where even a bus is economically impractical, we should build light rail. In this setting, that's about as 'green' and 'economical' as the Exxon Valdez spill.

But back to the pricing issue: I marveled on my trip to NYC that anyone didn't ride the MTA. With such population density, mass transit isn't a joke, it's a damned necessity. And for such a Sovietized system, it runs pretty well.

If a private company owned it, the price discrimination might be deplorable but would likely happen anyway. Just like at restaurants, though in the case of restaurants the 'senior' menu is really just the less-insanely-oversized-portion menu. No doubt a private train line would try to vary its fares from peak to off-peak, which is a good thing. Rush hour, gridlock, these things tend to be symptoms of excess demand created by the lack of price.

But the thing about the MTA is those glorious weekly and monthly passes. If I recall from my trip, $70 for the month, right? I live 2-1/2 miles from my work, my truck is paid for, and I still spend more than $70 a month for transportation.

Even if they discount a single-fair for seniors, anyone buying a single ride is probably spending more money than someone buying a weekly or monthly pass. The extreme case, someone who's a virtual shut-in, maybe rides once or twice a week, that's someone who would come out okay, but how big a percentage of the ridership is that?

The striking thing to me is that anyone takes a cab in that town. Maybe coming in from the airport with a ton of luggage, it might make a little sense. Or if you're Steve Martin, filthy rich and likely to be recognized, the limo insulates you from having to learn to sign autographs one-handed while strap-hanging.

But there's so many busses, it's not like the cab is going to get you from Alphabet City to the West Village any faster than the bus, because the busses dictate the flow of traffic. Think of the taxes you could do away with altogether by adding taxes onto cab fares! I'm sure they already do that, and I don't like taxes on general principal, but if you can tax stupidity and vanity, it's not the worst sort of tax...

[Duk, the Killer of Tiny-dicked Cracker-Albino White and Nigger dudes.]

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[Duk, the Killer of Tiny-dicked Cracker-Albino White and Nigger dudes.]

Shut your bitch-ass up, KissMyIrishAss (before I rape your ass and kill you)!!! I'm typically a nice guy, but too many people are using racial slurs and making racist statements here so I'm doing the same. Fucking nasty-looking, pigment-deficient, maggot-dicked cracker-albino boys! If Genghis Khan's Mongol Chinese Army didn't spare you all maggot-dicked (smaller than tiny) white boys during their atrocious European massacre and invasion, there would be none of you white boys (not men) left!!! Maggot-dicked white boys have been conquered (and their women rounded up and raped) to a greater extent by the Mongol armies of Genghis Khan and Attilah the Hun than no-dicked white boys actually conquered any other race. Don't believe me? Do a Google search of "White History" and read up your history boys.
As for tiny-dicked niggers, no women in this world WANT YOUR filthy STD-infested dicks except horribly nasty and ugly nigger bitches. Last week I saw a nigger bitch so ugly I almost fucking sued her ass in court!!! NO LIES!!! Goddamn father-fucking nigger bitches (they can't get no other man than their poor fathers) are the ugliest bitches under the Sun, probably kicked out of HELL by Satan himself because they're so fucking ugly. I'm trying to buy a machine gun so I can kill them ALL!!!
As for the Mongoloid people of Asia, they are the embodiment of perfection and deity. Bow to me you poor cracker-albino maggot-dicked white boys like how you did to Genghis Khan and Attilah the Hun and I may spare your dick (if I can find the fucker!).
P.S. if you want to know what I look like click on my name to see my pic. Print my pic and BOW and WORSHIP it.

[Duk, the Killer of Tiny-dicked Cracker-Albino White and Nigger dudes.]

HAIL THE MONSTER-COCKED ASIAN MAN, GOD OF THIS EARTH AND DEITY OF THIS UNIVERSE AND SAVAGE RAPER, MOLESTER, AND KILLER OF CRACKER-ALBINO WHITE AND NIGGER BOYS!!!

ALL HAIL!!!
HAIL!
HAIL!

OBSERVE THE MONSTER-COCKED ASIAN GOD EYE-FUCKING SOME CRACKER-ALBINO WHITE AND NIGGER BOYS (THERE ARE NO MEN BECAUSE ALL THE MALES HAVE MAGGOT-SIZED DICKS) TO THEIR MISERABLE DEATH.

ALL HAIL!!!
HAIL!
HAIL!

NOW OBSERVE THE ASIAN GOD GRIMACING AS HE ROASTS AND DEVOURS THESE DISGUSTING CRACKER-ALBINO AND NIGGER BOYS.

ALL HAIL!!!
HAIL!
HAIL!

AND OH MY GOD! THERE ARE NO MORE ALBINO AND NIGGER BOYS!

ALL HAIL!!!
HAIL!
HAIL!

NOW IT'S TIME FOR THE ASIAN GOD TO BRUTALLY RAPE ALL THE WOMEN; HEAR THEM SCREAM IN AGONY AS THEIR VAGINAS ARE RIPPED APART AND THEIR UTERUSES BLOWN APART!

ALL HAIL!!!
HAIL!
HAIL!

NOW LISTEN CAREFULLY? YOU HEAR THAT? THE CRACKER-ALBINO BITCHES ARE LAMENTING THAT THEIR WEAK, MAGGOT-DICKED CRACKER-ALBINO BOYS WERE NOT ABLE TO PROTECT THEM FROM THE MONSTER-COCKED ASIAN GOD.

ALL HAIL THE ASIAN GOD!!!
HAIL!
HAIL!
HAIL!

[Duk, the Killer of Tiny-dicked Cracker-Albino White and Nigger dudes.]

Shut your bitch-ass up, KissMyIrishAss (before I rape your ass and kill you)!!! I'm typically a nice guy, but too many people are using racial slurs and making racist statements here so I'm doing the same. Fucking nasty-looking, pigment-deficient, maggot-dicked cracker-albino boys! If Ghengis Khan's Mongol Chinese Army didn't spare you all maggot-dicked (smaller than tiny) white boys during their atrocious European massacre and invasion, there would be none of you white boys (not men) left!!! Maggot-dicked white boys have been conquered (and their women rounded up and raped) to a greater extent by the Mongol armies of Ghengis Khan and Attilah the Hun than no-dicked white boys actually conquered any other race. Don't believe me? Do a Google search of "White History" and read up your history boys.
As for tiny-dicked niggers, no women in this world WANT YOUR filthy STD-infested dicks except horribly nasty and ugly nigger bitches. Last week I saw a nigger bitch so ugly I almost fucking sued her ass in court!!! NO LIES!!! Goddamn father-fucking nigger bitches (they can't get no other man than their poor fathers) are the ugliest bitches under the Sun, probably kicked out of HELL by Satan himself because they're so fucking ugly. I'm trying to buy a machine gun so I can kill them ALL!!!
As for the Mongoloid people of Asia, they are the embodiment of perfection and deity. Bow to me you poor cracker-albino maggot-dicked white boys like how you did to Ghengis Khan and Attilah the Hun and I may spare your dick (if I can find the fucker!).
P.S. if you want to know what I look like click on my name to see my pic. Print my pic and BOW and WORSHIP it.

I'M GOING TO START KILLING CRACKER-ALBINO WHITE BOYS AND NIGGERS BY RAPING THEM WITH MY BIG COCK. IF YOU START HEARING NEWS OF CRACKER-ALBINO WHITE BOYS AND NIGGERS DYING A HORRENDOUS DEATH OF ASSHOLE RUPTURE, IT'S ME!!! HA-HA-HA!!! I AM GOD. JEHOVAH AND JESUS CHRIST SUCK MY COCK AND SATAN KISSES MY ASS. WORSHIP ME YOU POOR WORMS!!! CLICK ON MY NAME, PRINT MY PIC, AND BOW TO IT AND YOU MAY BE SAVED. THROW AWAY THE HOLY BIBLE!!! I AM THE NEW RELIGION OF MONSTER-COCKED ASIAN MAN AND DEITY. LET MY REIGN OF THIS UNIVERSE BEGIN!!!

HAIL THE MONSTER-COCKED ASIAN MAN, GOD OF THIS EARTH AND DEITY OF THIS UNIVERSE AND SAVAGE RAPER, MOLESTER, AND KILLER OF CRACKER-ALBINO WHITE AND NIGGER BOYS!!!

ALL HAIL!!!
HAIL!
HAIL!

OBSERVE THE MONSTER-COCKED ASIAN GOD EYE-FUCKING SOME CRACKER-ALBINO WHITE AND NIGGER BOYS (THERE ARE NO MEN BECAUSE ALL THE MALES HAVE MAGGOT-SIZED DICKS) TO THEIR MISERABLE DEATH.

ALL HAIL!!!
HAIL!
HAIL!

NOW OBSERVE THE ASIAN GOD GRIMACING AS HE ROASTS AND DEVOURS THESE DISGUSTING CRACKER-ALBINO AND NIGGER BOYS.

ALL HAIL!!!
HAIL!
HAIL!

AND OH MY GOD! THERE ARE NO MORE ALBINO AND NIGGER BOYS!

ALL HAIL!!!
HAIL!
HAIL!

NOW IT'S TIME FOR THE ASIAN GOD TO BRUTALLY RAPE ALL THE WOMEN; HEAR THEM SCREAM IN AGONY AS THEIR VAGINAS ARE RIPPED APART AND THEIR UTERUSES BLOWN APART!

ALL HAIL!!!
HAIL!
HAIL!

NOW LISTEN CAREFULLY? YOU HEAR THAT? THE CRACKER-ALBINO BITCHES ARE LAMENTING THAT THEIR WEAK, MAGGOT-DICKED CRACKER-ALBINO BOYS WERE NOT ABLE TO PROTECT THEM FROM THE MONSTER-COCKED ASIAN GOD.

ALL HAIL THE ASIAN GOD!!!
HAIL!
HAIL!
HAIL!